Making Sustainability Sustainable for Museums: an Interview with Caitlin Southwick

Sustainability for museums is a cross-disciplinary mindset.

I've been writing about climate collapse for a while in Museum Human (check out this Links of the Week in particular), but the intersection of this part of the polycrisis and museums has mostly been about protests, activists, artists, and other cultural statements—I haven't had as much about what museums are doing institutionally to reduce their own impact on the environment.

Caitlin Southwick, the founder and executive director of Ki Culture, has been focusing on nothing but what museums can do, especially internally in their practices and governance, for a few years. She's been connecting the dots on the science and the commitments and is now focusing on development and networking of a new generation of museum professionals, all while maintaining the urgency that activists are bringing to this matter of survival.

So check out this conversation with Southwick, which has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity and length. What is your museum up to?

Robert J Weisberg: Caitlin Southwick, thank you for talking to Museum Human! It's funny; we were introduced by Bob Janes [Robert R. Janes, the museum leader, academic, and activist], and it turns out that we were both interested in reaching out to each other at exactly the same time, after finding out that we were mutuals through Bob [who I'll be speaking later this month]. Bob has done a lot of work in shifting the conversation about museum culture and museums' roles into topics like climate collapse and societal collapse.

Tell me a little bit about your background before Ki Culture, and then a little bit about what Ki’s aims are and how the organization goes about it.

Caitlin Southwick: I actually have quite an eclectic background. I worked at a talent agency in Los Angeles for a couple of years. I've lived in multiple countries around the world and I was a double major in ancient history (classical civilization) and archeology.

After going off into the talent world for a while and then moving to Hawaiʻi for a little stint, I circled back to the museum world, which was always really my first love, and started studying art conservation in Florence. I studied in Italy for three years, in the UK for a year, and then in the Netherlands for an additional four years.

I was a stone conservator and absolutely loved my job and got to do some of the coolest things that a conservator could do. I was part of the first team of conservators to go down to Rapa Nui and work on the Moai statues. I've done research projects at the Getty, I've worked at the Uffizi Galleries, I've worked at the Vatican Museums. I really, really loved my job.

But something was nagging at the back of my head all the time: the impact of conservation. I grew up in Colorado, I'm a mountain girl. I love this beautiful planet we live on. And it didn't sit right with me, standing on the beaches of Rapa Nui dumping toxic chemicals over the Moai and watching it run into the ground and after that to the ocean.

I wanted to see how I could be more sustainable in my daily practice as an art conservator, much more in an environmental lens. I started an organization when I was a student called Sustainability in Conservation that's still around today. We focused mostly on research and development, producing various resources and programming for art conservators and looking at greener practices in the conservation field. And we’re currently doing a really interesting project with Horizon Europe called GoGreen. That introduced me to this wider nexus of sustainability and culture.

Robert J Weisberg: It's a very vivid description of seeing this culturally important work, when you think of restoration and preservation, yet the act of preservation involves these terrible chemicals that head into the water.

Let's move into Ki and how that came about. Was there any bridge between Sustainability and Conservation and what you did in Ki, or is that something that came about in a new way?

Sustainability is international

Caitlin Southwick: It was very much the entry point. I started SiC and was presenting at the ICOM-CC Triennial in Denmark in 2017. And I was really trying to figure out how we could connect ICOM to this idea of sustainability in the conservation world, and I was trying to figure out who would be best to talk to. I was looking to talk to the chair of ICOM-CC at the time, Kristiane Strætkvern; I couldn't really find her, but all of a sudden I found myself standing in line for the ladies' room behind Suay Aksoy, who was the president of ICOM International.

And I thought, okay, I guess I'm going straight to the top. I introduced myself and said, Pardon me, I don’t mean to disturb you, but I'm Caitlin Southwick. I started this organization to look at sustainability in the conservation field. And I was just wondering what ICOM was doing.

I wanted to see how I could be more sustainable in my daily practice as an art conservator, much more in an environmental lens.

And she said, well, I actually saw your presentation and wanted to talk to you. We're starting a working group for sustainability, and you have to be on it. I was like, Yes! Thank you! I was so excited about it. A few months later, I got an email from Morien Rees, who is still the chair of the working group on sustainability for ICOM and joined the group.

And that's actually how I met Bob Janes, a good friend and a huge help and support for the sector at large. It was through my work at ICOM that I started to realize that this is not just a problem that conservators have, but it's something that the wider cultural sector is grappling with.

But when it came to conservators, I felt that there was this inherent connection. Sustainability is in what we do—the nexus of preservation and heritage. We're here to preserve collections and think about the future, and yet we're only acting on one aspect of a much wider spectrum. However, the desire to incorporate the broader picture—including environmental and social justice—is there.

So I started doing some research and figuring out what are the big bottlenecks, why do we have this roadblock? Why is it that sustainability is something that everyone cares about, but, at that point a few years ago, there wasn't as much action being taken on it?

There were amazing things being done but also that were very siloed and not really celebrated or talked about. That was the beginning of Ki Culture. The main issue was a lack of time; so many people wanted to do things, but they just didn't have time for it.

And I thought, if we're going to take this seriously, we need a full-time, dedicated organization with paid staff members who can help figure out how to make this a reality.

Silos in the way

Robert J Weisberg: What's the fundamental work that Ki Culture tries to do? What is the value that Ki tries to add and how does that help this overburdened field? How does Ki try to work with different institutions and different practitioners?

Caitlin Southwick: One of the things that makes us unique is the fact that we are international, and not just in terms of Europe or North America, but we emphasize working with colleagues in South America, Africa, and Asia.

One of the other gaps that we try to fill is that there are a lot of silos and we try to pop the bubble, working with all stakeholders. A lot of times when museums are looking for sustainable solutions, they can't find one because their usual supplier doesn't offer it.

One example, I was talking with an architect who was showing me the designs for a museum expansion that he was working on, and he's very into sustainability. And I looked at the plans and I said, well, there's nothing sustainable about this. And he said, yeah, but you know, the museum director didn't ask for it.

I knew the museum director. I called him up and I said, Hey I just saw your plans. There's nothing sustainable about what you're doing. Are you guys not committed to this? And he said, no, we are. It's just that the architect didn't give us any options for it.

Many times it's just about having a conversation. That was something that we're really trying to foster, bringing people together in an effective way because we have all the solutions, it's just a matter of implementing them. And so often we make these assumptions that it's too hard or too expensive or we can't do it or my colleague doesn't want to do it. So we really try to create spaces for those conversations, to provide active action-based storytelling, user-generated case studies, and also to empower people. It's really about communication—and education.

I think one of the other issues that we found is that a lot of times people don't feel comfortable talking about issues of sustainability because they don't feel educated about it and they don't want to look, for lack of a better word, stupid. They don't want to seem unprofessional or appear that they don't know what they're talking about, so they just don't talk about it.

If you can empower people through education, then all of a sudden we have not only a conversation that is happening and moving forward, but we also have people who are really excited to be a part of it and are doing things that are really making a huge difference.

Sustainability of all kinds

Robert J Weisberg: Let's talk about that. I want to establish that sustainability is possible in the museum field; I'm just always struck by how little it takes for one good idea or good intentions to get vetoed and just sink back into, “Well, this exhibition's really complicated, so we'll do it on the next one,” or “this program is really behind so we really just need to slam it out. We'll have a retrospective and then we'll figure it out for the next time.”

Could you give me an example of something that the cultural field hasn't been doing that now it's paying more attention to, a tangible step in the right direction?

Caitlin Southwick: The two things that really pop into my mind right now are the conversation around climate control and the conversation around repatriation. And these are two things that are very near and dear to my heart.

[A] lot of times people don't feel comfortable talking about issues of sustainability because they don't feel educated about it and they don't want to look, for lack of a better word, stupid. They don't want to seem unprofessional or appear that they don't know what they're talking about, so they just don't talk about it.

I'm very active in these conversations in particular, and the climate control conversation is a really interesting one. We have all of the scientific research that we need, we have all of the evidence that we need to make changes, it's simply a matter of someone saying, yes, it's okay to make a change. It's a really interesting situation because we got ourselves into a little bit of a pickle when it comes to having these really strict and rigid regulations for climate control, which are incredibly energy intensive and, in museums, usually the most carbon-intensive aspect of our work.

And it's the easiest thing in the world to change. It's just a matter of getting someone to sign off on it. It seems a lot more complicated than it is, but for example, the Guggenheim Bilbao saved 20,000 euros every month by making a change from plus or minus two [degrees] to plus or minus five, and now they're going beyond that.

We needed to get everyone saying, okay, we're actually going to commit to doing this. It took some work because they had to call all of their loan agreements and let them know about the changes. There was only one instance they had to reopen negotiations. Everyone else was fine with the changes. As far as I know, the negotiations on the singular piece in question are still happening.

It was really just about saying, we're going to do it. And they did it, and it's been hugely successful. I hope that inspires a lot of other museums to be able to say this is something very impactful that we can do. We're putting on a pilot program starting in May to work with museums in making those changes because that is a hot topic right now with energy prices going up.

We have all of the scientific research that we need, we have all of the evidence that we need to make changes, it's simply a matter of someone saying, yes, it's okay to make a change.

So that's one on the environmental side. On the social side, repatriation is something that I think people are finally waking up to. I do have to say I was incredibly disappointed to see an article recently in the Guardian, that the prime minister of the UK has zero intention of giving back what he called the Elgin Marbles. My hope is that the Parthenon Marbles will be returned to their rightful home within my lifetime.

But, we are seeing a lot of really great work being done, especially the Benin Bronzes being returned to Nigeria. There's a lot of waking up to this idea that we should actually look at our colonial history and what stories we're telling and be cognizant of the fact that these are uncomfortable conversations, and it's time to start having them.

Robert J Weisberg: Or even look at our foundational collection practices and just a hundred percent call them for what they are. My institution has obviously been in the news a lot recently, involving various departments around the institution. It's uncomfortable, and it's been spoken about with the staff. But you have to ask, if in five years’ time, hundreds or thousands of objects leave a collection and go back to where they were taken from, does that change the nature of the museum? Not really.

Caitlin Southwick: Exactly.

Robert J Weisberg: What it changes are relationships and individual projects. Are those bigger than doing the right thing in the field? Do you see a connection between sustainability and repatriation and decolonization?

Caitlin Southwick: One hundred percent. Repatriation is social sustainability. When I talk about sustainability, I'm not just talking about climate change. I'm not just talking about the environment. It's all of these different elements between social justice, climate justice, and economic justice. Those are the three main pillars that are usually referred to.

It's very, very difficult to pick one component and say, this is sustainability, because everything is interconnected. You can't talk about climate change without talking about the burning of the Amazon, without talking about Indigenous rights, without talking about Covid. All of these things are linked to each other. So, for me, repatriation is actually at the core of social sustainability, specifically for the cultural sector, because it is about addressing our values. It's about confronting our histories and being transparent about it. And it's taking a stance for what the future of the sector is going to be.

Belonging is sustainability, too

Robert J Weisberg: A lot of museums have been having core values discussions coming out of DEIA. And they realized they needed to go a little bit deeper because so many of their statements about 2020 and Black Lives Matter rang as so inauthentic because they hadn't had these deeper conversations. I wonder if museum leaders are getting a little bit more than they bargained for because they're now opening up these very deep conversations among the staff and probably hearing things that they weren't expecting from the number of staff who are saying our collection practices are wrong, our internal power dynamics are wrong, and our sustainability practices are wrong. And I think individual groups in the museum, individual power centers, are finding themselves being asked questions about the sustainability of climate control in the institution, or various departments are being asked about the sustainability of their practices and where works in the collection come from.

How does Ki as an organization keep all of these balls in the air, so many conversations going? Internally, how does Ki work, how is Ki organized, how does it manage all of this work?

Caitlin Southwick: It's a very good question. One of the things I would like to point out is that we're not the only organization doing this work. There are a lot of other groups that are dealing with these issues, including Gallery Climate Coalition, Art to Acres, Art/Switch, Galleries Commit, Artists Commit, Art + Climate Action, Environment and Culture Partners, and Coalition of Museums for Climate Justice, to name a few.

A lot of them started with the environment, and that's where I started too, in Sustainability in Conservation. And that was one thing that we felt set Ki apart a little bit at the beginning was the fact that we were not talking just about climate, but about social aspects as well. And I think that as we've all grown in this journey, we've started engaging more with this intersectionality that is sustainability. The way that we've managed it is that we have such a phenomenal team, and everyone in our team brings something to the table.

Repatriation is social sustainability. When I talk about sustainability, I'm not just talking about climate change. I'm not just talking about the environment. It's all of these different elements between social justice, climate justice, and economic justice.

Our team members have expertise in these different areas, and we seek out colleagues who have different backgrounds. The diversity our team brings, as well as the experience they have,  adds a lot of value to our team and our outputs, because we get not only unique perspectives and input but really talented individuals.

So it's just through teamwork really and making sure that we are—I actually hate using the word inclusive - but maybe can say open and encompassing? I love what you said that maybe directors are feeling like they've gotten themselves into a little bit more trouble than they've bargained for. I think you're a hundred percent right on that; sometimes when you think about sustainability and DEAI-Ethics, you can think, okay, we'll just put in a policy about hiring a more diverse group and boom. But this is when we actually start going below the surface level, the Band-Aid, and really see that it's a systemic, inherent issue in the system. It's actually a really fun moment to be a disruptor and blow everything up and say, we have to find completely new ways of doing things.

I'll give you a quick anecdote about the word inclusion. There's a phenomenal professor at UC Berkeley, Dr. John Powell, and he gives this great lecture about belonging. This is the word that I prefer to use and is really the ethos of the Ki Culture team—everything is about co-creation. What we've come up with together is so much better and so much more interesting and so much more valuable than I could have ever come up with on my own.

Because we really value this idea of co-creation and I always tell my team, this is not me dictating. This is me inviting you to come up with solutions together. And that's what's made us so successful, because we've got hundreds of people putting ideas into this and we can be very reactive and go with what's needed at the time, which has been wonderful.

Circling back to Dr. Powell, he, in his conversation, describes this incredibly eloquently. He says, exclusion is: I'm having a party and you're not invited. Inclusion is: I'm having a party and you're invited. Please come on in. You're welcome. But, by the way, this is my house. These are my rules. Don't touch anything. Don't sit on the furniture, you have to behave yourself.

Whereas belonging is: Hey, I'm having a party. Do you want to co-host with me? What should the theme be? What do we think about this? So it's really taking it one step further. This is something really important for museums, because museums have, for a long time, been saying, oh, we're so inclusive and we want more people to come in, and we want diverse audiences, but it's not happening. And the reason is because we shouldn't be being “inclusive”. We should be creating spaces of belonging.

The Ki Books

Robert J Weisberg: That's interesting. I think of exhibitions, in particular, which are built around a curator having a vision, and they usually have connections that allow for a particular area of the collection to be highlighted, with all this scholarship around it. And it usually ends up bringing in a lot of content departments, which are often thought of as support departments around this curatorial vision.

And for all of the interesting discussions about working collaboratively, it's still that inclusion idea that it's my exhibition, you all are invited to participate, but it's still my call as to what should be there, instead of, as you said, an invitation. We have an area of collection, we have an opportunity for scholarship. Let's build something around that and make it everyone's exhibition.

[T]his is when we actually start going below the surface level, the Band-Aid, and really see that it's a systemic, inherent issue in the system. It's actually a really fun moment to be a disruptor and blow everything up and say, we have to find completely new ways of doing things.

I think the same thing scales; I had an interview earlier this year that discussed how museums started talking more about communities, but communities don't need museums necessarily. The world may be better with museums, but museums need communities to survive and to be relevant and museums are still thinking of themselves as, let's include the community in our work rather than we have an opportunity to help create something. And then, how do you pay the community for its time, pay the community for its effort, and value the community? It's just an extension of how you value museum workers.

Can you talk about some of these guides that Ki has made and how they're being received and used and what feedback you get from them?

Caitlin Southwick: The Ki Books were more or less a very selfish venture because when I was a conservator, I wanted someone to just hand me a book and tell me what to do and how I could be sustainable. So, when we first started Ki Culture back in 2019, there were a lot of resources, but they were difficult to find and often very cumbersome. For instance, the IPI [Image Permanence Institute] has this phenomenal report on HVAC system shutdowns, but it's 181 pages and this is my full-time job and I don't get through that thing. I don't expect the average conservator to read through that. I wanted to condense things into a more simplified way of looking at sustainability and make it quippy and actionable and easy to get inspired.

We started in Ki Culture in November of 2019 and we became a nonprofit in January 2020, and that was incredibly challenging on a financial level. But the silver lining of the pandemic for us was that everyone was at home bored and wanted something to do and wanted something cool to be a part of. So while we had no funds coming in, we were incredibly fortunate with having a lot of volunteers and we were able to get people who were willing to put in energy, their time, and their expertise into creating these Ki Books.

And it was a phenomenal experience. Looking back on it, we had marketing people, designers, web builders, content creators, editors—the entire team. It was all voluntary and it was just amazing people coming together from all over the world to do incredible work.

And what really stood out to me in terms of the Ki Books was we worked in collaboration with cultural professionals and sustainability experts. So it wasn't just within our little silo or our little bubble of the cultural world, but actually trying to translate the jargon of energy efficiency into something really relevant for the cultural sector.

We released three Ki Books in 2021: Energy, Waste & Materials, and Social Sustainability. We are currently translating those into a website because these started as PDFs and some of the feedback we got was that while people really enjoyed them and have been using them, they're already two years old, so we want to make sure we can update them regularly and people don't have to redownload them.

We're also translating them into multiple languages so that they can be accessible to people around the world; also, some of the recycling programs in English, for example, don't really apply to the Italian context or to the Portuguese or to the Brazilian context. It’s so important to have those nuances.

Robert J Weisberg: Could you talk about the museum climate control declaration that actually brought us together through Bob Janes? What it was about and how did it come together?

Caitlin Southwick: This is all part of the climate control conversation that we were discussing earlier. It actually was instigated by contemporary artist Tino Sehgal, who I was co-presenting with at a conference in Berlin last May. I’d been looking at the issues of climate control for quite some time within the context of the Ki Futures program [see below]. But I was finding it frustrating because a lot of institutions who were thinking about making changes to their climate control were saying, well, we really would like to see case studies, we'd like to see other organizations who have done this successfully without damaging their collections. And I couldn't find any information about it. And I thought, okay, well there isn't a lot of transparency about this issue.

First, we needed to figure out what's going on here. We put out a survey last October, and it was really fascinating—we're translating the results onto our website right now, and those will be available shortly. It was just a kaleidoscope of responses in terms of what people were using, why, and who was making the decisions.

[I]n terms of the Ki Books … we worked in collaboration with cultural professionals and sustainability experts. So it wasn't just within our little silo or our little bubble of the cultural world, but actually trying to translate the jargon of energy efficiency into something really relevant for the cultural sector.

There's a lot of misunderstanding and miscommunications about this topic, but there wasn't really a lot of clarity around even what guidelines were or how they're supposed to be used. We thought, all right, in order to tackle this, we need to get some clarity on the whole topic. So we hosted the International Climate Control Conference, a two-day event, bringing together all of the top researchers of the world on climate control including Joel Taylor, Lukasz Bratasz, David Thickett, Gaël de Guichen, and then also all of the acronyms, the leading authorities, including ICOM, IIC, AIC, AICCM, CCI, etc., but also Bizot and ASHRAE. The idea was to get some understanding about what the different guidelines are and what the leading research says, and then present case studies of organizations who have made the change or have never used climate control in the first place, such as the National Museum of Nigeria in Lagos.

The next step of this was the declaration where we wanted to get people to commit to making these changes. And once again, this is all about transparency. We’re still collecting names and we have almost a hundred signatories. We're primarily targeting upper management and influential organizations.

But of course, everyone is welcome to sign on to really show that this is a sector-wide movement. And we're launching the Climate Control Pilot next month to walk institutions through the process of deciding on new, more energy-efficient, and better collections care management regulations for their climate control, and then actually implementing those over the course of a year.

Connecting and Networking

Robert J Weisberg: What people do you connect within organizations to get them to be a part of this initiative? Do you go through the building managers or the scientific research people or the heads of conservation, or do you go to leaders and work down that way?

Caitlin Southwick: Well, that's the interesting thing because all of those people need to be a part of this. The most important thing that we've noticed is that discussions like this, actions like this, require full organizational buy-in from all departments. And a lot of times those are just conversations that aren't had, because maybe the facilities management department thinks that the conservators would never agree to it, and the conservators say they're fine with it but that the registrar would say it's not okay because of loan agreements. But maybe the loan agreements were written 20 years ago and no one's ever reviewed the templates. And no one's ever asked the borrowing organizations or the lending organizations if it's okay to change.

The art behind this is getting these people to talk and we've come at it from all angles. We started with the directors and then went in and had conversations with facilities management and conservators, getting everyone on board. Other times it started with conservators and then getting the rest of their organization on board. So I would say it's come from all angles, and that's what's exciting about it; I always say sustainability has to come bottom up, top down, inside out, and outside in.

Robert J Weisberg: I think that’s a good segue into the Ki Futures program. When we talk about getting people interested in having these conversations, there can be a lot of reluctance among people wanting to speak up or wanting to feel that they can be a leader in this work because they are in the middle of or low on the org chart. So can you talk a little bit about the Ki Futures program and what its aims are and how people get involved in that?

Caitlin Southwick: Absolutely. As we talked about earlier, we created the Ki Books, and it is one thing to be able to hand someone a book, but at some point you're going to have a question or you're going to need more information. And it was, for me, just about building a support system. When I was a conservator, I felt incredibly lonely in my desire to be sustainable. And I felt helpless because I was, once again, a “lowly” conservator, I didn't have the decision-making power. Especially when I was a student, what on earth was I going to do in order to make change? I felt very lost, I didn't have anyone to ask questions to, I couldn't find resources easily. There wasn't a lot of interest among my colleagues at the time. Now they're all totally on board and doing amazing things. I'm very impressed with how far we've come in such a short amount of time.

The Ki Futures program was about making sustainability sustainable and accessible. I spent a lot of time looking at the approach to sustainability. And it seems that museums that could afford it may bring in a consultant or even a trainer for a certain amount of time, but sustainability is not a tick box and it's not something that you can accomplish in six weeks or even in six months. It's an ongoing journey, and I really felt that becoming carbon literate is wonderful, but then what? And you know, it was for me something that needed to be continued to build upon rather than something that was a one-off.

So the Ki Futures Program is an ongoing program. The subscriptions are for one year and then they just continue. We had a 97 percent retention rate from 2022 to 2023; people have seen the value of continuing, which is wonderful. And it's just a way to get everything that you need to be sustainable. We provide educational courses and other types of events, every week there is a different session, either a training or a workshop or presentations, either from our Champions or from experts around the world. We also host networking sessions, social hours and office hours, different supplementary events for people to get even more engaged and involved. This is part of that empowerment piece and we cover all kinds of topics from circular economy to decolonization to energy efficiency and all sorts of psychological components. We've had trainings on behavioral economics and on climate storytelling, and how we can build up our team within our network and communication strategies. It's really a holistic approach to a holistic problem.

And in addition to the educational component, we provide a coach for all of our participants who can help people by answering the questions that they have, but most importantly by helping to mentor and guide them through their journey.

The Ki Futures program was about making sustainability sustainable and accessible. … museums that could afford it may bring in a consultant or even a trainer for a certain amount of time, but sustainability is not a tick box and it's not something that you can accomplish in six weeks or even in six months. It's an ongoing journey … that needed to be continued to build upon rather than something that was a one-off.

A lot of times we've seen sustainability being addressed by a green team or a sustainability team at a museum. That's a popular way to go, and I fully, fully support that, but I also feel that that team needs some support. I've seen all too often where a museum starts a sustainability team, and it's 10 people who are really passionate about this, but then they end up meeting on their lunch breaks and it starts every week and then it goes every few months and then it's been six months and it just peters out. And what we want to do is make sure that that momentum gets built upon and that the successes continue to multiply, rather than become a chore. We call Ki Futures an international coaching and training network.

So Ki Futures provides the educational component, it provides the coaching component, but it also provides that support system in a community-built environment.

"Greenhushing"

Robert J Weisberg: It's a fascinating and very insightful change. There's no shortage of good ideas in museums and cultural institutions and there's no shortage of interest in it, but it's a problem of how many groups get started but don't really have a tradition of support for each other. Or learning from each other.

I think of employee resource groups; often what happens with ERGs is that there's this tie into the museum administration. So you always have to funnel things through a particular insider, but the ERG itself doesn't have the support network because it somehow is considered by itself a support network. It doesn't have resources, it doesn't have time, it doesn't have people just helping out.

So it's interesting that you've created this network that's based on learning and it sounds like you're trying to get people to realize that this needs to be a part of the institution and not just an add-on. Then it's too easily jettisoned if there's a big project or if there are tough times and we don't have as much time to do the things that we used to. You're building a model that's very much based on learning.

A problem with the conference model is that, even if they’re great, they're so intensely focused, but then everyone goes back to where they were and everything just diffuses, all of the excitement turns out to be vaporware. So it's interesting that you're trying to build something in its own way, more sustainable.

I do want to ask about a great term that you used in a previous conversation: “greenhushing.”

Caitlin Southwick: Absolutely. Greenhushing is a really interesting thing. I didn't know that there was a term for it, but I was talking with a friend who works at a sustainability organization called We Don't Have Time, and I was describing to him a situation at a museum I will not name here because I don't like shaming anyone.

This museum was telling me that they had cut their carbon emissions by 70 percent in four years, and I was absolutely blown away. I thought, this is incredible, we need to talk about this. I asked, can I turn this into a case study and they were like, oh, absolutely not.

And I said, "What do you mean? This is really inspiring! A lot of people could learn from this.” And they said, “No, no, no. We are very happy doing our work in the background and not making any noise about it.” And when explaining this situation to my friend he said, yeah, that's greenhushing. And I said, that's a thing? There's a term for this?

A lot of sustainability experts think greenhushing is more dangerous than greenwashing. And that really stuck with me because indeed, if we're not talking about what we're doing, then, first of all, we seem to be doing nothing, so we're adding to the inertia against actually making change. And second, we're keeping those silos in place where we're not inspiring each other. The museum sector is, unfortunately, one of the worst examples of green hushers, because so many institutions that I've talked to say, “Oh yeah, we're doing that.” “But are you talking about it?” “Well, no.”

Greenhushing is by definition not talking about sustainability initiatives for fear of negative backlash, because if they're not doing it perfectly, then they didn't want to talk about it yet.

We’re not perfect, and it's okay to not be perfect. It's a journey. This circles back to what we were talking about with belonging and co-creation. It’s not our job to figure out how to be perfectly sustainable alone. Why don't we open up and start talking publicly about issues that we'd like to tackle and invite co-creation and ideas, especially from our community?

An example of this that I always give is donations from fossil fuel companies or other places that don't really align with our intrinsic values. The problem is that museums say, well, we can't not accept the money, because then where are we going to get the money from?

Why don't we just start talking about that? Maybe someone has some ideas for new sustainable business models or for alternative funding streams. We have to be more vocal. Not only about our successes, but also where we need to make changes so that we can invite solutions in.

A lot of sustainability experts think greenhushing is more dangerous than greenwashing. … we're adding to the inertia against actually making change. … we're keeping those silos in place where we're not inspiring each other.

Robert J Weisberg: I think museums also are probably sensitive to fears of being tagged as woke. It's such a simple word that gets thrown around and museums are afraid sometimes to get into nuance because they're like, what if we put people off? What if we lose visitors and what if we have all these discussions?

So how do people get involved in Ki Futures?

Caitlin Southwick: Just sign up! Email Ki Futures if you’re interested or would like more information. It's open to everyone. We work not just with museums and conservation studios, galleries, and artists, but all sorts of cultural stakeholders. We work with foundations, we work with vendors and suppliers, with packing and shipping companies all over the world. We also work with university professors, researchers, so really everyone in the field.

There is a price point for joining, because this is a sustainable business model and we like to pay our employees, our trainers, and our coaches. We try to be as accessible as possible so the price point is based on the carbon footprint of the participant. A polluters pay model. And of course this means that the price goes down as you actively reduce your carbon footprint. Just a note to say that you don’t have to know your carbon footprint to join - we will help you calculate that. And it's an ongoing program so you can enroll at any point in time. And if you have any questions or anything, feel free to get in contact and we'd love to tell you more about it.

Robert J Weisberg: Thank you very much for talking to Museum Human and I look forward to continuing the conversation!

Caitlin Southwick: Absolutely. It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. And I'm always happy to delve into more details about anything!

cover image by the author [description: two people in a video call, with one in a smaller inset window]

Making Sustainability Sustainable for Museums: an Interview with Caitlin Southwick by Robert J Weisberg is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.